A beginner's work in progress.......
There is no denying the consequences of war
Published on December 24, 2004 By dabe In Politics
You may or may not agree with the reasons that sent us to war in Iraq, but the consequences are undeniable. The author is extremely articulate, so I will not attempt to paraphrase any of what he's saying. Below is the entire article:

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Families Pay the Price
By BOB HERBERT

Published: December 24, 2004

"It's like watching your son playing in traffic, and there's nothing you can do." - Janet Bellows, mother of a soldier who has been assigned to a second tour in Iraq.

Back in the 1960's, when it seemed as if every other draftee in the Army was being sent to Vietnam, I was sent off to Korea, where I was assigned to the intelligence office of an engineer battalion.

Twenty years old and half a world away from home, I looked forward to mail call the way junkies craved their next fix. My teenage sister, Sandy, got all of her high school girlfriends to write to me, which led some of the guys in my unit to think I was some kind of Don Juan. I considered it impolite to correct any misconceptions they might have had.

You could depend on the mail for an emotional lift - most of the time. But there were times when I would open an envelope and read, in the inky handwriting of my mother or father or sister, that a friend of mine, someone I had grown up with or gone to school with, or a new friend I had met in the Army, had been killed in Vietnam. Just like that. Gone. Life over at 18, 19, 20.

I can still remember the weird feelings that would come over me in those surreal moments, including the irrational idea that I was somehow responsible for the death. In the twisted logic of grief, I would feel that if I had never opened the envelope, the person would still be alive. I remember being overwhelmed with the desire to reseal the letter in the envelope and bring my dead friend back to life.

This week's hideous attack in Mosul reminded me of those long ago days. Once again American troops sent on a fool's errand are coming home in coffins, or without their right arms or left legs, or paralyzed, or so messed up mentally they'll never be the same. Troops are being shoved two or three times into the furnace of Iraq by astonishingly incompetent leaders who have been unable or unwilling to provide them with the proper training, adequate equipment or even a clearly defined mission.

It is a mind-boggling tragedy. And the suffering goes far beyond the men and women targeted by the insurgents. Each death in Iraq blows a hole in a family and sets off concentric circles of grief that touch everyone else who knew and cared for the fallen soldier. If the human stakes were understood well enough by the political leaders of this country, it might make them a little more reluctant to launch foolish, unnecessary and ultimately unwinnable wars.

Lisa Hoffman and Annette Rainville of the Scripps Howard News Service have reported, in an extremely moving article, that nearly 900 American children have lost a parent to the war in Iraq. More than 40 fathers died without seeing their babies.

The article begins with a description of a deeply sad 4-year-old named Jack Shanaberger, whose father was killed in an ambush in March. Jack told his mother he didn't want to be a father when he grew up. "I don't want to be a daddy," he said, "because daddies die."

Six female soldiers who died in the war left a total of 10 children. This is a new form of wartime heartbreak for the U.S.

We have completely lost our way with this fiasco in Iraq. The president seems almost perversely out of touch. "The idea of democracy taking hold in what was a place of tyranny and hatred and destruction is such a hopeful moment in the history of the world," he said this week.

The truth, of course, is that we can't even secure the road to the Baghdad airport, or protect our own troops lining up for lunch inside a military compound. The coming elections are a slapstick version of democracy. International observers won't even go to Iraq to monitor the elections because it's too dangerous. They'll be watching, as if through binoculars, from Jordan.

Nobody has a plan. We don't have enough troops to secure the country, and the Iraqi forces have shown neither the strength nor the will to do it themselves. Election officials are being murdered in the streets. The insurgency is growing in both strength and sophistication. At least three more marines and one soldier were killed yesterday, ensuring the grimmest of holidays for their families and loved ones.

One of the things that President Bush might consider while on his current vacation is whether there are any limits to the price our troops should be prepared to pay for his misadventure in Iraq, or whether the suffering and dying will simply go on indefinitely.

Comments (Page 2)
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on Dec 24, 2004

How many thousands more must die? How many tens of thousands more must suffer horrific injuries? What will it take to make people understand that this was an unnecessary war based on dumb folly?


I think that as time goes by and little to no progess is seen.....I think that brings more understanding than anything else.  The people that I've talked to about it (most of them have been retirees, they like to come and shoot the shit with me whilst they're shopping - and a lot of them are Vietnam and Korean Veterans) are starting to wonder where it's all going to end.  The enemy factions are assimilating against us...factions that once would have slit each other throats as soon as look at each other are now fighting a common enemy.  That's not good, to say the least.


I'm all about supporting the troops.  I'm all about supporting this country and being patriotic (even tho I'm not a citizen).  I'm just starting to question the cause is all......

on Dec 24, 2004
Pat, pat, Yaaaa, one more point for us.

If we leave now we doom 50 million people.

War is a serious matter for grownups


This is one of the troops, we don't want your support.

That's My Two Cents
on Dec 24, 2004

Thank you, Mr. St. Hubbins. You stated my thoughts very eloquently.


Dabe - You just earned your way onto my list of folks whose opinion I will never again take seriously and whose articles will be on my auto-ignore list. If DSH is your idea of a guy you want supporting you then have at his debate business sans my input (I am sure you are crushed). May i recommend www.sirpetermaxwell.com ? They will support your opinions in the same manner as DSH along with a healthy dose of rascism, sexism, and anti-semitism. Nice company to keep. Good luck and goodbye

on Dec 25, 2004
Oh no!!!! Greywar doesn't like me. I'm so......................errrrrrrr....................not giving a rat's ass.
on Dec 25, 2004

Just wanted to stop by and wish you a Merry Christmas, dabe.  You and I have diasgreed in the past, but I honestly think that our philosophies and outlooks and closer than either of us realize.....


..so I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and an exceptionally good new year!

on Dec 25, 2004
Lee1776: 'If we leave now we doom 50 million people.' Twenty two million. Iraq has 22,000,000 people. Why do you make it so easy? You really shouldn't be discussing politics.

Greybore: Threats of a BlogKlan boycott didn't work for LW and they won't work for you. We've moved onto a post-LW age, where people's ideas are what's important, not BlogKlanning and these things called 'points' you are obsessed with. The anger and hatred in your comments and posts is (are? Please help with this asshole-verb agreement) palpable; as a result your logic is *always* flawed, which makes it so easy and so rewarding to disprove everyting you say. You can call me racist, sexist, and anti-semetic all you want but as long as you keep pumpin' out those 'KILL THEM BROWN PEOPLE!!!' articles we know who the real bad guy is.

David St. Hubbins
on Dec 25, 2004
Just wanted to stop by and wish you a Merry Christmas, dabe. You and I have diasgreed in the past, but I honestly think that our philosophies and outlooks and closer than either of us realize.....


..so I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and an exceptionally good new year!


Thanks, so much for recognizing our philosophical similarities. I just think I'm a bit more vocally abrasive than you on some of these issues
Same good wishes back at ya, Dharmagrl.
on Dec 25, 2004
You really shouldn't be discussing politics.


David, my politics is my politics, if you don't like it then don't listen to me. Many on this site already consider that you should stay out of politics as well. While I will look at both sides of an issue to come up with the best possible solution. You just feel that you must berate anybody that don't agree with you. I have not called anyone on this forum stupid or their opinion wrong. I am just trying to point out that throwing ones opinion out just to make yourself points or feel good about beating those nasty NoeCons or Bush supports have more of a ramification to people. In doing so your fooling yourself into beleaving you care, when your really advocating getting people killed.

Weather it is 50 million or 22 million it is enough to want to give those people a chance, something right now your not even willing to give them. Come up with a better idea on how not to get a whole country killed, tortured and any chance for freedom taken way, then I may agree with you.

Happy Holidays to Dharmagrl, Dr. Guy, Kingbee and Greywar. (They keep your post civil)

That's My Two Cents
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