A beginner's work in progress.......
There is no denying the consequences of war
Published on December 24, 2004 By dabe In Politics
You may or may not agree with the reasons that sent us to war in Iraq, but the consequences are undeniable. The author is extremely articulate, so I will not attempt to paraphrase any of what he's saying. Below is the entire article:

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Families Pay the Price
By BOB HERBERT

Published: December 24, 2004

"It's like watching your son playing in traffic, and there's nothing you can do." - Janet Bellows, mother of a soldier who has been assigned to a second tour in Iraq.

Back in the 1960's, when it seemed as if every other draftee in the Army was being sent to Vietnam, I was sent off to Korea, where I was assigned to the intelligence office of an engineer battalion.

Twenty years old and half a world away from home, I looked forward to mail call the way junkies craved their next fix. My teenage sister, Sandy, got all of her high school girlfriends to write to me, which led some of the guys in my unit to think I was some kind of Don Juan. I considered it impolite to correct any misconceptions they might have had.

You could depend on the mail for an emotional lift - most of the time. But there were times when I would open an envelope and read, in the inky handwriting of my mother or father or sister, that a friend of mine, someone I had grown up with or gone to school with, or a new friend I had met in the Army, had been killed in Vietnam. Just like that. Gone. Life over at 18, 19, 20.

I can still remember the weird feelings that would come over me in those surreal moments, including the irrational idea that I was somehow responsible for the death. In the twisted logic of grief, I would feel that if I had never opened the envelope, the person would still be alive. I remember being overwhelmed with the desire to reseal the letter in the envelope and bring my dead friend back to life.

This week's hideous attack in Mosul reminded me of those long ago days. Once again American troops sent on a fool's errand are coming home in coffins, or without their right arms or left legs, or paralyzed, or so messed up mentally they'll never be the same. Troops are being shoved two or three times into the furnace of Iraq by astonishingly incompetent leaders who have been unable or unwilling to provide them with the proper training, adequate equipment or even a clearly defined mission.

It is a mind-boggling tragedy. And the suffering goes far beyond the men and women targeted by the insurgents. Each death in Iraq blows a hole in a family and sets off concentric circles of grief that touch everyone else who knew and cared for the fallen soldier. If the human stakes were understood well enough by the political leaders of this country, it might make them a little more reluctant to launch foolish, unnecessary and ultimately unwinnable wars.

Lisa Hoffman and Annette Rainville of the Scripps Howard News Service have reported, in an extremely moving article, that nearly 900 American children have lost a parent to the war in Iraq. More than 40 fathers died without seeing their babies.

The article begins with a description of a deeply sad 4-year-old named Jack Shanaberger, whose father was killed in an ambush in March. Jack told his mother he didn't want to be a father when he grew up. "I don't want to be a daddy," he said, "because daddies die."

Six female soldiers who died in the war left a total of 10 children. This is a new form of wartime heartbreak for the U.S.

We have completely lost our way with this fiasco in Iraq. The president seems almost perversely out of touch. "The idea of democracy taking hold in what was a place of tyranny and hatred and destruction is such a hopeful moment in the history of the world," he said this week.

The truth, of course, is that we can't even secure the road to the Baghdad airport, or protect our own troops lining up for lunch inside a military compound. The coming elections are a slapstick version of democracy. International observers won't even go to Iraq to monitor the elections because it's too dangerous. They'll be watching, as if through binoculars, from Jordan.

Nobody has a plan. We don't have enough troops to secure the country, and the Iraqi forces have shown neither the strength nor the will to do it themselves. Election officials are being murdered in the streets. The insurgency is growing in both strength and sophistication. At least three more marines and one soldier were killed yesterday, ensuring the grimmest of holidays for their families and loved ones.

One of the things that President Bush might consider while on his current vacation is whether there are any limits to the price our troops should be prepared to pay for his misadventure in Iraq, or whether the suffering and dying will simply go on indefinitely.

Comments (Page 1)
2 Pages1 2 
on Dec 24, 2004

i used to watch bush speaking and wish something or someone would wipe that fuckin smirk off off his face.  because it never seemed to make any difference how serious the subject or the situation, i forgot  the cliched old aphorism about the consequences of having one's wish come true.  as i watched him discussing the slaughter in mosul, i realized he wasnt smirking.  as gratifying as it might otherwise have been, i felt only sad and helpless.

to make matters worse, should there be elections in iraq on january 30, 2005, sistani will be head of the 2nd islamist government we've managed to help create there over the past 20 years

on Dec 24, 2004
It is just sad how the Anti-War crowd is just dancing with glee and spot lighting every family heart break. Please show the families and soldiers still there some respect, and stop it. While your enjoying every set back, because it helps bolster your selfish point, people are trying to finish the job so that millions of Iraqi families will not feel the anguish when the next theocracy/dictatorship your enforcing on then (by us leaving to soon) takes over. This will be a new theocracy/dictatorship that will take away their freedom of speech and life. This is freedom that you seem to not want others to have, while you gleefully type away using your freedom. Take a moment to reflect how wrapped your ideas of freedom are and how heartless your action are.

That's My Two Cents
on Dec 24, 2004

Reply #2 By: Lee1776 - 12/24/2004 12:56:46 PM
It is just sad how the Anti-War crowd is just dancing with glee and spot lighting every family heart break.


Instead of the Iraqi dictator, we're likely to see an extreme Islamist terrorist state in place of Saddam. Really nice. This has nothing to so with the soldiers, and I've written comments about this. This is stricly about our brain damaged administration that sent them there. I feel really badly for the death and distruction going on in Iraq, while we here in the US are insulated from the carnage, except, of course, the soldiers and their families. Lee, if you really think the left or any anti war crowd is dancing for glee or enjoying every setback, you've got your head up your ass.
on Dec 24, 2004
Lee, if you really think the left or any anti war crowd is dancing for glee or enjoying every setback, you've got your head up your ass.


And you really have to go out of your way to accomplish such a feat.
on Dec 24, 2004
Instead of the Iraqi dictator, we're likely to see an extreme Islamist terrorist state in place of Saddam.


Most likely if you get your way, we will. The only chance these people got is for us to stick to it, your just wanting to throw them to the hounds.

Lee, if you really think the left or any anti war crowd is dancing for glee or enjoying every setback, you've got your head up your ass.


In their (and maybe yours) twisted world they are. Don't say that you and others on this site has not posted every bad weather thing that has happened, then pat each other on the back for making a point against the bad evil NoeCons. You scream to your self that I'm doing it for the troops. Wake up buddy, because most of the troops don't want your support if it comes in this form.

That's My Two Cents
on Dec 24, 2004

Most likely if you get your way, we will. The only chance these people got is for us to stick to it, your just wanting to throw them to the hounds.


if by some miracle we were able to totally pacify the insurgents so that every iraqi could freely vote on jan 30th 2005,  for whom do you think theyd vote?   allawi?  a non-islamist opposed to establishing sharia as his nation's legal system?  a pro-western pro-democracy secularist?   while it's possible the kurds might elect some of the latter, the 60% shia majority is gonna be backing whomever the grand ayatollah sistani supports.  the sunnis will be voting for whomever their theorcratic council of muslim scholars backs.  it's not gonna be a red and blue iraq when the votes are counted (assuming it gets that far); forget about jesusland.  iraq is gonna be allahland.   an islamic republic just like iran. 

and how are you gonna like your blue-eyed boy then mr death?

on Dec 24, 2004

We have completely lost our way with this fiasco in Iraq


For once, I agree with you....and yes, families do pay the price.  I know that all too well.


At first I was all for the war....but as time goes by and we seem to be no further forward, I'm leaning more towards the US getting the fuck out of there.

on Dec 24, 2004
     I would like to note the complete and utter lack of a single idea on how to improve the situation in the article posted. Man there is nothing a soldier loves more than to hear a schmuck piss and moan about a war and never offer up a single alternative other than "cut and run". Thanks for the support Mr. Herbert. Next time support us better by shutting your piehole and letting the military do it's job without having to listen to you running your suck.
on Dec 24, 2004

iraq is gonna be allahland.


At least hey would have a government they selected. Additionally if you think the Kurds will ever knuckle under to outside influences again then you don't know a goddamn thing about the Kurds.

on Dec 24, 2004

At least hey would have a government they selected


i agree.  and the same thing can be said about iran.  nobody forced the islamic revolution on the iranians. does that make it any less abhorrent to me?  would the majority of iranians choose a different form of government today?  unfortunately when you select a theocracy of your own free will, your selected government isnt likely to permit you to rethink that decision.


Additionally if you think the Kurds will ever knuckle under to outside influences again then you don't know a goddamn thing about the Kurds


i dont claim to know much more about the kurds than this: they seem to have among them some very brave people who are willing to fight for their right to self-government and  may even be able to resolve their factional disagreements to coalesce as a sovereign nation.   unless youve decided the us isnt an outside influence in their affairs, im not at all confident (nor anything but regretful) youre correct in your prediction.  the kurds have knuckled under to us, are currently knuckling under to us and, unfortunately for all concerned, very likely going to continue to do so. 

on Dec 24, 2004

Instead of the Iraqi dictator, we're likely to see an extreme Islamist terrorist state in place of Saddam. Really nice. This has nothing to so with the soldiers, and I've written comments about this. This is stricly about our brain damaged administration that sent them there. I feel really badly for the death and distruction going on in Iraq, while we here in the US are insulated from the carnage, except, of course, the soldiers and their families. Lee, if you really think the left or any anti war crowd is dancing for glee or enjoying every setback, you've got your head up your ass.

Instead of nazi Germany we are likely to see what?

So you support nazi Germany since they kept the peace! There was no crime there.  There was no unrest.

You are just plain sick.

on Dec 24, 2004
Man there is nothing a soldier loves more than to hear a schmuck piss and moan about a war and never offer up a single alternative other than "cut and run". Thanks for the support Mr. Herbert. Next time support us better by shutting your piehole and letting the military do it's job without having to listen to you running your suck.


where did anyone--but most especially mr herbert--advocate cutting and running in that article?  apparently the author has some experience as a soldier (although admittedly only working in intelligence and based in korea ).  i see no lack of support here for those members of the military who are actually doing their jobs at great risk to themselves.  i cant speak for dabe or mr herbert, but youre wrong to question my respect for or deep concerns about the troops who are doing their jobs with incredible bravery and dedication in iraq. 

if, in fact, your commander-in-chief and his advisers had spent less time indulging in manifest destiny fantasies rather than doing their jobs and letting the pentagon do its job, it's possible we wouldnt be having this discussion.  it's not that im not vitally aware that war is sometimes the only option, but more that ive seen the consequences of going to war overly hastily, discarding all other options in the process.  
on Dec 24, 2004
Lee1776: 'the Anti-War crowd is just dancing with glee...enjoying every set back ' At no time did the author of the article, the blogger, or commentor display anything remotely approaching glee. kingbee actually states the exact opposite: 'as gratifying as it might otherwise have been, i felt only sad and helpless.' These people are genuinely concerned about the war, period. It's sick of *you* to just make up shit like they are 'dancing in glee' in order to try and guilt people into not criticizing an obvious disaster of a war. War is a serious matter for grownups and if you are going to try and smear good people exercising their right to state the obvious - that this war is a disaster - then you probably shouldn't be talking politics.

GreyWar:'ABOOOGABOOGA!!!UGH!!!BANGSTICK GOOD!!!' - On the side of death, as usual. We're not quite at the point of polishing Bush's turd yet, we're still trying to convince the cognitively disassociated like Lee1776 that the war isn't going so well. There is no onus on the author to produce a magical solution when there is still a significant disconnect in reality about what's going on over there and why it happened.

Dr. Guy: There are a lot of similarities between the extreme nationalism and militarism among the warmongers here at JU, and the rise of the Third Reich. Sorry, you don't get to call the pro-peace people Nazis.

David St. Hubbins
on Dec 24, 2004
Thank you, Mr. St. Hubbins. You stated my thoughts very eloquently.
on Dec 24, 2004
At first I was all for the war....but as time goes by and we seem to be no further forward, I'm leaning more towards the US getting the fuck out of there.


Dharmagrl, my sister and BIL were completely gung ho to invade Iraq before we actually did. Actually, my sister wavered, but my BIL was convinced that Saddam had to be taken down. A few months ago, he said to me, "Di, you were right." He completely changed his mind, not from my pestering, but from his own reading. We don't even live in the same state. What he now understands is that Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, had no relationship to Al Qaida, and the thousands upon thousands of deaths and mutilations cannot justify this invasion. It was an ill conceived fiasco from day one, and is only getting worse. How many thousands more must die? How many tens of thousands more must suffer horrific injuries? What will it take to make people understand that this was an unnecessary war based on dumb folly?

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS. BRING THEM HOME.
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