Don't fault me for not trying, because if I were able, I'd be there, and happily so, believe me.

I'm not faulting you at all.... I just don't think you should seem as eager as you do to add others to the list of fatalities.

I'm not faulting you at all.... I just don't think you should seem as eager as you do to add others to the list of fatalities.

Why? Because I support my country in its efforts to bring a free and open democracy to a nation that has never known it (and this is partially our fault...after all we put Saddam in power and syuuported his for many years. It was our duty to take him down; he was our Frankenstein) in its entire history, and, in the process, to divert terrorists in their efforts against this country?

See, we can all sit here in our respective democracies (I'd say one would be hardpressed to find anyone here living under a dictatorship) and say "Gee, America is wrong in this! We (or they) shouldn't be impressing their ways on another people!" because we've always had the freedoms we take for granted.
I don't see the media doing a whole lot of "man on the street" interviews coming out of Iraq, in which the reporters are asking their opinions about our efforts at sparking off a democracy for them.
How does the Average Joe-al-Muhammad feel about it all? Anyone?

The vast majority of the enemy forces, from what I'm able to glean, is Islamic insurgents coming from outside that nation. They come to "liberate" Iraq from the demoracy it seeks to establish. "Liberating from democracy" is almost an oxymoron, from my perspective.

Yeah, that's true. In our stupid attempt to remove the WMD's that didn't exist, then instill a democracy in a country where no one wants it at the end of a gun, and now to save the oil fields from the insurgents, we have totally screwed up that country. The insurgents weren't there until we opened the borders for them.

This "farcical war" is necessary....America will rework the entire goepolitcial face of the MidEast if this is successful, and democracy thrives there. We removed Iraq as a supporter of terrorism against the West.

Since when is it America's place to "rework the geopolitical face of the Mideast?" Sounds a whole lot like imperialism to me. And, Iraq may have supported terrorism against the west, but he never perpetrated it. There are lots of countries and people now who have happily filled that function. Saddam was never a supporter of Bin Laden, and certainly not like America's CIA was.

Also, they would install an Islamic theocracy. Why would you support that, Dabe? Your side constantly wars against religion in our democracy, after all.

The interesting thing is that Saddam's Iraq was the only secular Arab country in the Mideast. Not anymore. We've furked that up, too. And, in that it will now be a theocracy, thanks to the dubya dummies, we've lost. We cannot win. All we can do is install political cronies (and we know how good dubya is at doing that), allow them to theocratize the nation as they see fit, then stand back and say Yahoooooo! Mission Accomplished. They now have a democracy that was fixed, with elections wherein no one knew who to vote for, and a puppet government that sanctions theocracy. And, all it costs is $bllions and thousands of lives. What an accomplishment.

You know, it annoys me that the same side that censored the Twin Towers newscasts to cut out the shots of bodies dropping from the upper floors as people sought to escape, because it might generate hatred and anger toward Islamics and Middle-Easterners among the general population, would use graphic violence and such when it works toward their purposes.

WTF are you talking about? This sure is a statement that you obviously pulled out of your ass.

"Someone's Parent", "Someone's Child" and unfortunately someone else's political porn.

Sorry you missed the point

instill a democracy in a country where no one wants it

And you know this for a fact how? As I said, noone in the Bush-bashing media is asking the Iraqis themselves how they feel. How do you know this?

Since when is it America's place to "rework the geopolitical face of the Mideast?" Sounds a whole lot like imperialism to me.

Someone has to, otherwise they'll never get anything done. The worst thing that happened to those poor, backward people was when the western Empires pulled out and left them to their own devices. Nothing but trouble from and for them since.

And, Iraq may have supported terrorism against the west,

Thanks for the support, dabe....that's all you had to say.

Saddam was never a supporter of Bin Laden, and certainly not like America's CIA was.

Well, you know, Iraq and the CIA were both supporting bin Laden at about the same time; back in the 80's when he was working against the Soviets in Afghanistan. It was a worthy cause at the time. Since 1989, the CIA has had little to do with him, which is part of the reason he hates us so much.

The interesting thing is that Saddam's Iraq was the only secular Arab country in the Mideast.

Untrue...Saddam was "God" in Iraq, and kept his divine status by murder and repression. Not anymore, I'm happy to say.

We've furked that up, too. And, in that it will now be a theocracy, thanks to the dubya dummies, we've lost. We cannot win. All we can do is install political cronies (and we know how good dubya is at doing that), allow them to theocratize the nation as they see fit, then stand back and say Yahoooooo! Mission Accomplished. They now have a democracy that was fixed, with elections wherein no one knew who to vote for, and a puppet government that sanctions theocracy. And, all it costs is $bllions and thousands of lives. What an accomplishment.

Whatever dabe.....you don't know any of this for fact. You're speculating based on your own hysterical views. In twenty years, when Iraq is the new Japan and is a flourishing example of a thriving democracy, will you shut up then? No you won't. You'll still be bitching, because it's what you do best. Either that, or you'll smile proudly and say "I knew it all along!" Whatever.

You know, it annoys me that the same side that censored the Twin Towers newscasts to cut out the shots of bodies dropping from the upper floors as people sought to escape, because it might generate hatred and anger toward Islamics and Middle-Easterners among the general population, would use graphic violence and such when it works toward their purposes. WTF are you talking about? This sure is a statement that you obviously pulled out of your ass.

Actually, that's correct, and it came not from his ass. The full extent of the horror and carnage were not made public. This was for two reasons offered at the time: 1) so as not to offend our alleged sensitivities, and 2) so as not to fan the already hot flames of anger toward Muslims. And I believe it is true that many on the left opposed showing the raw images and videos of the WTC horrors, many of them the same folks who are so eager to force us to see the blood of every wounded or killed GI and every coffin arriving at Dover for the sole purpose of fostering a political agenda.

It takes no courage at all to show such pictures. It is also disturbing that such pictures of truly courageous individuals are used in efforts to undermine the very mission for which they sacrificed so much.

Cheers,
Daiwa

This "farcical war" is necessary....America will rework the entire goepolitcial face of the MidEast if this is successful

Yeah, but what right do we have to do that?

Previously fightng factions have put aside their differences and have come together to fight a common enemy (America. Shouldn't we take that as a sign that we're not wanted there?

"Someone's Parent", "Someone's Child" and unfortunately someone else's political porn. Sorry you missed the point

I didn't miss the point at all, I thought I covered your point quite well in the part you didn't quote (where I actually agreed with you)... I merely extended the point. There are many who dismiss the sacrifice and honor of these brave men and women and reduce their wounds and deaths to political statements.

How is attempting to shield the general public from the horrors of war (for fear it will turn people against the war) any different than using the images of these brave men and women to turn people against the war?

These men and woman you choose to exploit for your own political purposes have done enough. Leave them and their families alone. What next, floating, bloated bodies in New Orleans? Is there no depth too lowly?

Think about the families of these people, if this were your son or daughter would you want some boor throwing these images in your face for their own gain?

I have no desire to argue with you about how I feel about the Iraq debaucle. You already know my feelings. So, now just carry on conversations among yourselves and pat yourselves on the back for the wonderful killing spree we are undertaking for the name of dubya and his fucking oil obsession.

The vast majority of the enemy forces, from what I'm able to glean, is Islamic insurgents coming from outside that nation.

that's actually not true...i've read several things out of the pentagon lately saying that they're capturing and killing more iraqis than foreigners these days.

fucking

My my my...aren't we just the little pottymouth?

Or should I say "FoulMouth"?

That's right, dabe...other people have shown up here with opposing viewpoints that you can't debate, so just decamp to another place rather than stand and discuss. Typical, typical....

While I have the greatest respect for American and British soldiers who give their lives in foreign countries (my own home was one of the targets and I owe my freedom to these soldiers), I resent the implication that American lives should be valued higher as the lives of Iraqis who are now alive because of the invasion.

http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/politics/0000374.php

Another implication is that this invasion started the bloodbath in Iraq, which is simply not true. What is true is that Iraq was much worse before the invasion. We are just not used to crying over dead Arabs and Kurds.

http://www.massgraves.info/

Iraq is a debacle only if one assumes that saving lives takes no sacrifices or that saving Arab and Kurdish lives is worthy of no such sacrifice.

I have never made such a sacrifice, but I have grown up under American occupation. And I am thankful for each American who risked his life to make that possible. I am sad about each American who died while removing Hitler from power, but I am glad that these sacrifices were made and that Hitler was removed.

Previously fightng factions have put aside their differences and have come together to fight a common enemy (America. Shouldn't we take that as a sign that we're not wanted there?

--dharma

Maybe I'm missing something here, sorry. I know about the factions, but were they factions from/in Iraq or coming from without? Sorry....brain's farting here. Somebody help me out.

that's actually not true...i've read several things out of the pentagon lately saying that they're capturing and killing more iraqis than foreigners these days.

--Myrr

How come you're so willing to accept data from the military that bolsters your opinions, but quickly dismiss it when it doesn't?
If the Pentagon said that we were killing 100,000 insurgents a week and were winning a glorious victory, would you be so willing to accept it?

I have no desire to argue with you about how I feel about the Iraq debaucle. You already know my feelings. So, now just carry on conversations among yourselves and pat yourselves on the back for the wonderful killing spree we are undertaking for the name of dubya and his fucking oil obsession.

But apparently you do desire getting off on the porn it is creating for you. Yes, I already know your sick feelings and personally, I think you should be in prison with the rest of those who molest others for fun.

And quit feigning outrage or "wounding" you didn't post these pictures for any other reason than to get off on their shock value. Well you won't get shock from me, only disgust at your inhuman lust for bloody pictures.

Yes, peace takes courage, and standing up for what you believe is part of that. Protest this war and I will support your right to my death. Parade the wounds of these volunteers as if you had the right, and I will speak just as strongly against you and your depravity.

If I walked up to a woman who just had an abortion and put a fetus in her face and said, "See what your hatred has done!" You would call me a monster. Well, what is the difference between that sicko and YOU!