A guy can change, can't he? Besides, I never really meant to dismiss her opinions as I did. things just got out of hand. See my "open letter" apology to her if you want.

Yes he can...and I saw your letter, but I don't see any change in your attitude or way of discussing things with one who might disagree with you.

Just shows the intolerance of some of the conservatives here Karen. If you have a weak argument then go for the name calling. It gets you nowhere, solves nothing and only causes ill feelings in the community.

Where is the name-calling? I know I called her a potty-mouth, yes, but she is....such language is completely uncalled for in a polite discusion. It had nothing to do with her political views.

You're in the game for keeps, and it affects you more personally than many of those anti-war horn blowers and pot-bangers around here, who are only against it for their own reasons.

I guess one has to be a military spouse in order for you to accept their feelings against the war. All others are just "anti-war horn blowers". I've got news for you. That is so hypocritical. Just because Karen is not as vocal as me, and I do understand that, as she likely has lots of conflicting stuff going on in her life, does not make her any less credible an anti-war advocate. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds and it is dispicable.

(Karen, I know I am being rather presumptuous here. Please tell me if I am out of line.)

Rightwinger

no one is pointing a finger at you. Name calling in general seems to be the dominant way of trying to win arguments here on JU lately. No one said it was you that was doing it.... this is not a Rightwinger vs. everyone else thread... so don't try to make it one.

Where is the name-calling? I know I called her a potty-mouth, yes, but she is....such language is completely uncalled for in a polite discusion. It had nothing to do with her political views.

Insults are deemed "polite" in your mind, as long as they don't include swear words? Hmmmmmmmmm.............. This is what you call "polite discussion?" Obviously, we've had very different upbringings.

You'll still be bitching, because it's what you do best

.... and unfortunately someone else's political porn.

.... you choose to exploit for your own political purposes

Well you won't get shock from me, only disgust at your inhuman lust for bloody pictures.

.... and I will speak just as strongly against you and your depravity.

many of those anti-war horn blowers and pot-bangers around here, who are only against it for their own reasons.

And, I'm sure I missed a few in this thread. Yeah, polite, my ass.

Dabe, how was any of that impolite, just because we didn't say "Ahem; excuse me, but...."? I saw one swear word in all that, from me, and it wasn't used as an insult. The rest were simple opinions of the poster that you no doubt found offensive simply because they opposed you.

WTF are you talking about? This sure is a statement that you obviously pulled out of your ass.

I'd like to point to more examples here of your own less-than-polite responses, but you don't seem as willing to take up your own argument as some others here. Also, I'm not as sensitive to attack as you, obviously. Oops. Sorry....didn't mean to insult you.

(Karen, I know I am being rather presumptuous here. Please tell me if I am out of line.)

Nope, you're spot on.

My husband is employed by the government. Our family relies on the government paycheck to feed and clothe us.....and a lot of the time I feel that I'm biting the hand that feeds by voicing my concerns and throughts over the war in Iraq.

It's also difficult for me to be supportive of a mission that I don't agree with. When Dave deploys I have to keep reminding myself that it's HIM I'm standing by and supporting, NOT the reason he's deploying.

Every time I notarize a will for a deploying troop I'm remind of the very real fact that I might never see that person again.

Tomorrow morning I have to go brief an outgoing team and witness their wills. I feel almost like I'm a part of the machine that's shipping them out to war, and I detest that.

My husband is employed by the government. Our family relies on the government paycheck to feed and clothe us.....and a lot of the time I feel that I'm biting the hand that feeds by voicing my concerns and throughts over the war in Iraq

Not at all...it's your right to feel that way.

It's also difficult for me to be supportive of a mission that I don't agree with. When Dave deploys I have to keep reminding myself that it's HIM I'm standing by and supporting, NOT the reason he's deploying.

Lots of people "support the troops" without supporting the war itself. but then, your husband took up the challenges, good and bad, of military life. That includes being sent to do jobs he (and you) may not like.

Every time I notarize a will for a deploying troop I'm remind of the very real fact that I might never see that person again. Tomorrow morning I have to go brief an outgoing team and witness their wills. I feel almost like I'm a part of the machine that's shipping them out to war, and I detest that.

They have a face to you. That makes it even harder. But I, personally, still feel that the goal of bringing a measure of freedom to people that have never known it is a noble one. I know..."armchair quarterbacking"....but still, I can cheer for my team even though I'm not playing.

They have a face to you. That makes it even harder.

Thank you for acknowledging that.

But I, personally, still feel that the goal of bringing a measure of freedom to people that have never known it is a noble one. I know..."armchair quarterbacking"....but still, I can cheer for my team even though I'm not playing.

But do they WANT it? Do they want to become westernized? Isn't it wrong of us to go around flexing our arm and forcing our way of life upon people who may not want it?

If it wasn't this country, it would be another. There's always going to be conflict, I understand that. However, I'd rather it was a conflict for honest humanitarian reasons, not a commercial interest masquerading as something else.

Dabe, how was any of that impolite,

Unbelievable. Yup, we definitely had different kinds of upbringings. You are rude, and you don't know it. You are condescending, and you don't know it. You're holier-than-thou attitude is rude, condescending and pompous. And, one more thing - IMPOLITE. You're just so full of yourself, you don't recognize how impolite and rude you really are.

But do they WANT it? Do they want to become westernized? Isn't it wrong of us to go around flexing our arm and forcing our way of life upon people who may not want it? If it wasn't this country, it would be another. There's always going to be conflict, I understand that. However, I'd rather it was a conflict for honest humanitarian reasons, not a commercial interest masquerading as something else.

Bingo!!!!!!

dharma -

Your feelings are quite understandable and I appreciate the perspective you have to offer us here. I've often thought about how I'd feel if one of my sons was over there. Without actually living it, I can't say for sure, but I'm sure the same sort of reservations and doubts would cross my mind. Nonetheless, risk is an integral part of soldiering and like to think I'd support him wholeheartedly, as you do your husband.

Cheers,
Daiwa

I did not make my accusations towards Dabe merely because she is against the war. In fact, I believe I reiterated that I would support hers (or anyone else's) right to protest this (or any) war to my death.

What I did do was accuse Dabe of callously abusing the images of our war wounded and dead to further her own agenda.

You cavalierly parade these images on your site, hoping to elicit an emotional reaction. If you are going to elicite an emotional reaction, be careful because you know not what emotions you are conjuring up in people's minds.

If I had the power to share the images that I do all I can to keep in the deep recesses of my memory, would you see the images and hope that no one drives again, that no adult have contact with children again, that drain cleaner never be found in anyone's home again?

Don't expect me to see those pictures you parade here and expect me to take them any less than personal. Don't expect me to look at those images and merely respond in a logical, poltical manner. My first response was the closest I could come, but you chose to shoot back. There is nothing impersonal about these photos, so forgive me if I get personal in my outrage that you would politicize them.

No, Dharma, Manopeace, and anyone else, I do not (I say again) DO NOT address these accusations at everyone who is against this war. I only address my accusations at those who defame the memory of our fallen men and women by posting pictures of them and then wonder why I would take personal.

Nonetheless, risk is an integral part of soldiering and like to think I'd support him wholeheartedly, as you do your husband.

Thank you, and I do. I understand that his primary function is to defend his country in a time of war, and I have no beef with that. What I have the beef with is the reasons we're not only IN iraq still, but the reasons we went in the first place.

I only address my accusations at those who defame the memory of our fallen men and women by posting pictures of them and then wonder why I would take personal

See, I didn't get that from Dabe's post. I think that she was merely trying to put a human face on this debacle, and I totally agree with that. We have become so desensitized to these losses.....we need a wake-up call every now and then.