Letter to my friend in Utah

And his response

Published on October 1, 2005 By dabe In Politics

I found this exchange kind of interesting. I'm sure you all will, also.

This pretty much speaks for itself. Needless to say, particular personal stuff was removed.

A letter from Rich:

FYI - Like the bumpersticker says, "If you're not angry, you're not paying
attention."

David Serota article Link

My reply to him:

As always, great hearing from you. I just want you to know that I actually have, really, that bumper sticker on my car right now.

I've read about that issue. I've been rather on top of this crap for a number of reasons. First of all, I have this political bone in my body that just won't let me be apolitical. And, speaking of bones, I've been home alot lately, as in not working, because I have a broken ankle. I've been spending way too much time in bed watching all this crap unfold. I broke my ankle a week before Katrina, so I spent hours and hours and hours glued to the TV.

Thanks for David Serota's article, which I had not read, even though I spend way too much time on the internet, also. He's one of the good guys. This article sums up the GOP bastards really well. I hate them. I'll never understand that mindset. To understand it, you have to be filthy rich and benefit from them, having an unhealthy degree of selfishness to go along with it. Or, if you're poor, you have to be a stupid diehard, dumbya supporter who for some bizarre reason, things the dumbya admins are good for this country. I guess they are just not paying attention. But, it's worse than that. They really think they are. But, they're paying attention to the likes of Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Faux Fox News, etc. And, amazingly enough, these idiots are so idiotic, that they don't see that it is just people like them that this administration is looking to screw. Why are there so many idiots in the world?

Rich's reply back to me:

I'm glad to learn that you have that bumpersticker on your car. I have "Question Authority" and "Think Globally, Act Locally" bumperstickers on mine. Needless to say, I get lots of weird stares from other (mostly conservative Mormon) drivers here in southwest Utah. I realize that it is asking too much of drivers to think, question, and act; all on one bumper.

I agree with all of your points. You asked why there are so many idiots in the world. I have been giving this a lot of thought lately, and I think that religion plays a major role. Religious people are trained to have faith. Faith that their religious leaders and principles are correct and holy. By extension, people of faith may likewise tend to accept that their political leaders (especially those overtly or tacitly endorsed by their religious leaders) are inherently good, trustworthy people who are doing the right thing.

I work with and around lots of conservative Mormons. They are not bad, stupid, or evil people. But they keep voting in lock-step for Republicans who consistently give most of them (except the millionaires) the shaft. This does not make logical sense until you factor in the role of religion and faith. When you do, you begin to see that they are trained to put FAITH above worldly matters like logic or intelligence. So, when their Mormon leaders and friends say to trust the GOP, they do. The pattern continues. Maybe this explains why lemmings also follow their leaders over cliffs (Mormon lemmings?). Anyway, I think we should worry about religious fundamentalists wherever they exist (Iraq or here).

Comments

ParaTed2k

on Oct 01, 2005

Sorry to burst your Mormon hating friend's bubble, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has never once endorsed the Republican (or any other) party. Sen. Harry Reid is a member, a staunch Democrat, and as far as I know he has never been threatened with his church membership.

In Utah there are a lot of members who joke that a good Mormon would never be a democrat, but even some of the most prominent "General Authorities" (what we call our churchwide leaders) have been very active democrats. In fact, with the number of members passing 2% of the population of the U.S. you will find members of the LDS church in pretty much every political party and persuasion (there are even LDS Liberals (GASP). "Vote for the candidate who most closely fits your ideals of the role of government" is all the leaders say about casting a ballot. Oh, and, no matter how we vote, we are highly encouraged to take part in the democratic process at all levels.

Not only that, but just prior to EVERY election season a memo goes out to be read in Church meetings by every Bishop that declares the LDS Church's political neutrality, and reminds the members that using church facilities, leaders or members to back any particular candidate or party is not allowed.

I chalk the whole "Latter-Day Saint = Republican" thing to just another urban legend.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Gideon MacLeish

on Oct 01, 2005

Actually, a lot of the more traditional Mormons tend to be almost Libertarian in their thinking...and I know of not a few Mormon Libertarians.

Para's right...and, while I am no fan of the LDS church, I DO hate to see numerous misstatements such as this about them.

Gideon MacLeish

on Oct 01, 2005

Sen. Harry Reid is a member, a staunch Democrat, and as far as I know he has never been threatened with his church membership.

But...but....Reid's campaign slogan in '04 was..."independent...like Nevada"

How can you say he's a staunch democrat? (SNICKER!)

Manopeace

on Oct 01, 2005

I work with and around lots of conservative Mormons. They are not bad, stupid, or evil people. But they keep voting in lock-step for Republicans who consistently give most of them (except the millionaires) the shaft.

where does it say nything about official endorsement Ted?

Lee1776

on Oct 01, 2005

But...but....Reid's campaign slogan in '04 was..."independent...like Nevada"

How can you say he's a staunch democrat? (SNICKER!)

GRRRRR, I'm still pissed over that one.

Most Nevadans was hoping that he would continue talking like that, and would bring the Democrat party back to moderation. But unfortunately I think he was brainwashed or Alien abducted because he had done to many 180's on his political positions just one month after his reelection.

dabe

on Oct 01, 2005

Yikes! I struck a nerve. But, I knew I would. And, manopeace is absolutely right. My friend never said anything about official endorsement. He only talked about his own personal experiences and observations.

dabe

on Oct 01, 2005

And, one more thing. My friend does not hate Mormons. He hates neocon-loving republicans. Very big difference.

Ziggystyles

on Oct 01, 2005

How do you live, dabe? You must feel so horrible about yourself that you choose another group to bash to make yourself feel better about yourself.

You're missing out on lots of interesting, enlightened people by all this political labeling and grouping. Do you have ANY republican people in your life?

Therapy. You need good therapy.

ParaTed2k

on Oct 01, 2005

Religious people are trained to have faith. Faith that their religious leaders and principles are correct and holy. By extension, people of faith may likewise tend to accept that their political leaders (especially those overtly or tacitly endorsed by their religious leaders) are inherently good, trustworthy people who are doing the right thing.

Dabe, Manopeace... Apparently you didn't even bother to read your friend's letter. Unless "especially those overtly or tacitly endorsed by their religiously leaders" means something other than endorsements by religious leaders. Which as my reply pointed out... The leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints does not do.

And, one more thing. My friend does not hate Mormons. He hates neocon-loving republicans. Very big difference.

The only difference is the target of his mindless bigotry. He is still a mindless bigot... and seemingly proud of it.

Bigotry is hating individuals based on preconcieved notions about whole groups. Sounds like your friend fits that definition pretty well.

Most of us have the ability to have friends and acquantances with whom we vehemently disagree. I may call you names, get a little personal in my arguements against you Dabe, but the reason I keep reading your stuff is, when you get right down to it, I like you as a person. You have the ability to be political, interesting and sometimes down right fun with your blog, and while I disagree with your poltical views, I would miss your articles if you chose to quit coming to JU.

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